I just read an article online about disciplining your children.
I am 22 and I don't have any kids, but I am around children every day and I have studied Psychology and Juvenile delinquency in college. First, you must understand your child and know what type of punishment to use. Time outs may work for some kids, but not for others. My parents never used time outs because they both thought it was ridiculous. As do I.
This woman mentioned in the article that spanking or whipping a child is abuse and an absolutly disgusting form of punishment. She believes you should put your child in time out and discuss with him/her if they're bad agian you will get time out again. Its always important to inform your child which behavior is not tolerable, but personally I believe time outs are ineffective.
As a child, my favorite thing to do was to be somewhere outdoors. Exploring the woods, playing in a barn, climbing a tree, anything outdoors. So, my punishments were to stay in the house for the entire day, which absolutly killed me, I hated it. I also got many, many spankings. Some say that it is wrong to spank your child because the child will fear his/her parents blah blah. Isn't that somewhat the point? You want your child to be in fear of punishment so they won't misbehave. My parents spanked me but I never thought for a second that I was being abused or unloved.
I thank my parents for the way I was raised. I respect them both very much. So, which do you believe is the most effective? Time out or Spanking?
The Bible says spare the rod spoil the child so I think use all methods of punishment (time outs, spanking, stay inside, take toys away, take priveledges (spelled wrong, sorry) away etc.) and pay attention to what method works best. You gotta lay down the law as a parent or your child will be a J D before they can even drive. The reason why spanking is considered abuse by some people is cause there have been parents that took spanking too far. As long as you put a limit to how hard you spank, you can use spanking as a form of punishment.
I thinking that spanking is more efficient. When I was younger, my brother and I fought a lot and my mom would spank us to try to get her point by. I think if she tried to use timeouts we would have laughed it off and just go back to fighting. My mom wouldn't do it in public, she would reach down and pinch us if we were misbehaving, and trust me, I learned really quick not to do anything bad. I really see nothing wrong with spanking your child, but that's my opinion.
I dont believe in spanking, I have a 3 year old and when she's throwing her 3 year old temper tantrums I tell her to go to time out for a minute or 2 depending on how bad it is. When I was younger and me and my brother fought my dad use to swing the first cables he found lol which hurt alot but he always made his point. Overall though I think time out is more effective, spanking just makes kids grow up scared of their parents and probably even hate would start to settle in. But of course thats just my opinion
Spanking. I guess it's a case of nature vs. nuture. I was raised with this type of punishment, therefore I see no problem with it. But don't take it to the extreme. If the kid can't sit down for a week after the spanking, thats over the top. Just my opinion.
I don't spank. I use time outs with my sons and neither are spoiled brats. Also grounding, taking away of any special privilges...etc. Each son has their special day once a week where they can have dessert of their choice, stay up an hour later, play a vid game, or request to go somewhere fun like the museum or the pool. If they act up....no special day! I also have my oldest write down what he did wrong, what he can do to do better the next time. (So i get him to work on his language and writing skills too!) So I try non spanking measures with my kids.
In fact my 5 yr old does his chores without me asking...and does them well! He actually mopped the kitchen for me on Sat ....not one of his chores...just that he noticed mommy was tired! Not bad for a kid that has never been spanked!
I think it's based on your parenting style and the temperment of your kids. My kids are both lowkey and mellow, so timeouts work for them.
I also have some "well-meaning" people say alot about what the above said....spare the rod spoil the child.
There's actually alot of people sitting in jail that were given the rod a bit too many times,that's all they know about how to deal with people. Violence. I don't buy the that timeouts turn people violent...I would guess that if they interviewed people in the state penn most probably had horrfic dealings with the "rod"
Like I mentioned above, you must understand which punishment is the most efficient for your children. I just love what you do. Taking away the special day is great! However, I do not think spanking is violent and I do not think the child will fear their parent because of it. Unless of course the parent takes the spanking to an extreme. I also don't believe a lot people sitting in jail are there because they were spanked as a child. This comes down to the whole nature vs nurture argument. They are in jail because of the choices they decided to make or possibly a chemical imbalance in the brain. However, very extreme punishments, torture, sexual abuse, ect could very well cause violent and criminal behavior.
Could you share a link confirming this? To my understanding spanking your child is legal in all states. Three states have had spanking bans proposed but none have passed. According to Nevada's Civil Code of parental rights it is only illegeal to use excessive corporal punishment which may lead to physical or mental injuries (abuse). Utah's civil code states that force is justified if used for reasonable discipline of a minor by parent/guardian/teacher/person standing in loco parentis. Which is latin for "in place of a parent".
Hey I personally think that it is incorrect for the "state" to tell you how to discipline your child. For that to work I think that before a person becomes pregnant / or adopts a child the"state" should have a course on "How to raise a child".
I have a very mouthy child, who I allow to express herself as she sees fit, however she is not allowed to be disrecpectful. The principle of "do onto others what you would have them do to you" is prevailent in my household.
A child should never be abused and too often people mistake punishment for abuse. To punish any form of wrong doing is allowed in the world but it is subjective to your religion/ country / economic situation. Bearing in mind that a child is an individual that will one day grow up to foster children of their own and may shape the outcome of other lives, it is important to note that there are actions and behaviours that should never be accepted, hence a punishment more than "time out".
Spanking allows for the body to remember that you have performed an unacceptable action. Spanking should be accompanied by remorse on the part of the punished so that there is a clear understanding/ agreement that the action was wrong. Spanking should be a last resort.
I grew up being spanked and came out mature and well balanced. Now with that being said, there is an extreme to both sides.. I do not advocate abusing a child spitting on them or whooping them until they have bruises. However some children dont learn from time out and needs to be spanked to under the message or lesson that needs to be learned. When I do have children, I will spank them but will not whoop them with extension cords and will make sure I dont cross that line.. I have a question, when it comes to spanking how far is it when it goes too far and crosses abuse in your opinions?
I to was raised up with spankings, I have some problems with some of the reasons for it but I believe that as you grow up you learn and decide what you think is right . I was spanked for accidents too. Now that was not right and I have had the opportunity to speak to my Mom about this and she says that she did the best that she knew at the time. It's culture. I think parents all regret how we handle some disciplines, it's part of learning. You have to be careful of the way YOU, the parent, are feeling at the time of the "offense". My children are grown and I remember one time I punished my child because I was embarrassed by what he did. Not because it was wrong, It was really a teaching moment and I didn't take advantage of that because it involved another child (parent ) I think Parents cross the line when they're own feelings are not in check!. Keep that in mind when disciplining your child.
I was also spanked when I was young. My parents used it as a 'shock factor' like slapping hand. To get our attention. It barely hurt, if at all. Each of us kids (5 total) each responded to different punishments differently. The biggest punishment was to talk to my dad, who would look at us seriously and tell us how disappointed he was in us for being bad. That would scare us more than and spankings. Time out to me was a time to day dream and entertain myself. My brother on the other hand could not stay still at all. Abuse or brusing is never good and should be reported. Punishments should be given when the parents are not angry or overly emotional and should know their kids enough to know what would be the best way of teaching them that 'what you did was wrong, don't do it again'
We were generally good kids. My mom also was big in answering 'why'. Tell the kid that touching the stove will get them burned, or going too far away from mommy means they might get lost. Kids understand these things, and if they know why it is 'bad' they are more likely to not get into trouble.
I do not have children as of yet but I am definetly completing it. I was a victim of abusive parent's that thought abuse was the only form of discipline. I was harshly abused from slapping, to belts, to kicking and the abuse escaladed to the unimanagable. I dropped out of school,got arrested and became a dancer etc. Mabey the reasons why my path in life was in distraught was because of the abuse I endored as a child ( I can not speak for all that were victims of abuse). Most definetly, the abuse I endored was tramatic and life changing as a negative aspect of life. If my parent's put more time,dedication and love into rasing me with out abuse, I would have became a lawyer. I feel that I was the apitimey of the abuse I endored in my younger years.A product of my enviorment. It takes years of healing and counseling to get though a haunting past. Abuse can make you or break you.
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What works for one may not always work for another. So in this practice of discipline neither sides are wrong. You have to find what means work for you. You of course know your child better than anyone else. For example what motivates, behaviors, temperment ect basicly how your child reacts to certain things. I did not have a set disciple in mind that I decided to stand by, instead I learned it by observing what worked for my child. I have 3 kids & each one is different. My oldest is what I like to call a little rebel. In the beginning I used time outs, 5 second rules you name it and none of it worked, the first time I ever spanked her was while in the store she thought it would be funny to run & hide somewhere. In that moment I felt so helpless calling out to her with no reply in what seemed like forever when finally I saw her feet sticking out from a clothes rack. I realized then & there that what I had been doing was not working & if I kept doing it she would not benefit and the outcome could have been a lot worse. I took her aside got down to her level & told her what she did was wrong then firmly popped her on the butt. From then on it never happened again which was a huge relief for me. Now with my middle child I only use time outs because it works for her. Let me also say that I only spank when needed & never out of anger.
My son tried to walk away from me in an airport! It freaked me out and I just told him straight out that someone might steal him and hurt him. I explained that they might touch him in a bad way (yes, I gave him examples) or abuse him, kill him, or even sell him, and ever since then he'll tell me every now and then WHY it's dangerous to hide from me or try to take off from me.
I think they are both good when I was little it was a time out today it's more like lay down for a spanking but After I get a spanking I sometimes realize what I did but sometimes I feel like they wasted there time.
I don't spank my son, but he's only four so I wouldn't anyway. I put him in the corner (I will even find a corner in a store) and then talk to him about why something is bad. My son isn't the type to scream or yell when he's in trouble, so this might not work for other kids. Usually, he gets the point and doesn't do it again. One time, he saw a mother spanking her child and he freaked out, to him it was abuse (yes, he understands what abuse is). He told me he loves that I don't ever hurt him and said he won't be bad enough to get a spanking (we'll see lol). Also, I took care of my niece from birth to now, she's six, and I've never ever had to spank her. I guess if you talk to children like they are humans they will act like humans.
I believe you need some of both. I got spankings when I was young and I got timeouts. But spanking a child too much could cause that child to grow up and think to spank his/her child the same much is how you raise the child. On the other hand, getting too many timeouts without spankings might not teach a child a lesson and the child might start to talk back, etc. There is also the fact that the parents tell the child right from wrong in either case, though. I guess it depends on the situation.
With my daughter, what we do is
The spankings we give are very light but enough to get her attention and to get her to listen.
however is she gets in trouble for hitting, we will not spank her because it defeats the purpose if we spank her for hitting its kind of saying its okay to hit.
I don't think that spanking is very effective.. I have a child with an anxiety disorder and spanking him makes him worse.. I give timeouts based on age..so 5yrs then they get 5 minutes..they are warned first if they don't stop the behaviour they are doing they will get a time out.. and in order to get out they have to be quiet and behaved for at least two..then they are told if they do the same wrong behaviour they will get another time out and a favorite past time taken away..such as DS or outdoor time.. and I also agree with spanking sort of letting them know that it is okay to hit..
I think.... Every child is different. Some children learn kinesthetically for them, equating bad behavior with a tap on the bumm might actually be useful.But most learn in different ways than that. Tht would be the exception.
I am really not a fan of spanking... I think it is a tool when done not hard and under the right circumstances it can be a useful tool on very rare occasion to fully drive home a point. Especially for children to young to understand reason just yet.
Once a child has reached the age of reason, about 6 years old, it becomes more beneficial to discuss the behavior with them and to teach them why it is wrong and to punish them non violently. Even in the toddling years spanking should be extrmely rare. But sometimes and with some children nothing else seems to get through, though most can manage to get the drift without this practice.
Abuse of a child by a parent and as a victim myself i know it all too well, must NEVER become a part of the raising of a child.
If you are hitting your kid into their teenage years you got a problem. A teenager is learning huge amounts from your behavior and may hit you back. My dad hit me until i was married to my husband. At that point he almost tried it once, My husband stepped up behind me and he is a lot larger than my father. My dad got scared and backed down.... Setting up that dynamic with a teenager or young adult child is a really dangerous game to play. No matter how rude they are, hitting them at that age is NOT a solution, no matter how gently you do it. Once they hit that age of reason, your job as a parent becomes less about discipline and more about teaching them correct living actions and behaviors. Not saying don't punish them, just saying spanking after the age of reason is not going to accomplish anything but teach them to fear you. Then when your daughter gets pregnant young, she won't tell you. She will be too scared of you. And your son, may not tell you if he is bullied at school due to fear of you, they may become secretive etc, and the most dangerous thing for a child is to have parents who know nothing about what is going on in their lives. Because before all else, a parent is a steward of childhood and their first most fundimental duty is to keep their baby safe till that baby is old enough to take care of themselves. You can not take care of someone who is too scared of you to tell you what is going on.
neither, I think teaching a child to be accountable for their behavior is the best way. If they break something they have to fix it themselves OR go without. If they treat someone bad they need to be made aware that they hurt that person and they have to find a way to make it up to that person. I used to believe in spanking but it doesn't teach anything but fear , helplessness and anger. Logic is a good teacher.
I have two teenage boys, and when smaller spankings were a worst case scenerio, they are not afraid of me, they respect me, there is a difference, but spanking is wrong and can be taken too far, I did it when they were much younger and unable to understand what they did wrong, my boys are "country" or used to be, so they have thrown each other threw windows, shot out windows in my house, paintballed, well lets just say they are extreme but after being exhausted and chasing them, I found out spanking them made them worse, yet taking things they loved away worked better. I know my boys are not bad just very spirited if you will, and now that I am there at the edge of them leaving home, I so enjoy them. How hard would it be if they were afraid of me, hide things from me and wouldn't like to be with me at all. My oldest is 18 and is going to jin the Army as soon as he graduates, I thank God everyday I didn't raise him the way I was raised. He knows love, not fear, he knows indiviuality, not conform, and he knows he lives in a great contry, not a dictatorship. Just because I was raised that way and came out, well afraid to do anything wrong, ok doesn't mean it's right. We all have minds to think about things and learn and adapt. I do not blame my parents, they did the best they could with the tools they were given, however I didn't use the tools I was just given I researched and took classes, to find better tools that would make us a family of love not a family of hate and anger.
That's great! It seems like you found an adequate way to raise your boys without having to spank them. I understand you disagree with "spanking" and I respect your beliefs. I'm assuming you were raised in a family that believed in spanking. Its great that you researched and found better ways to discipline your children. I grew up in a very close and loving family who believed in spankings. If my brother and I were out of line my mom or dad would spank us or take a switch to our legs, haha. I had such an amazing childhood full of wonderful memories, though. We never for a minute thought we were being abused or unloved.
Oh it's not bad, hence I said worse case scenerio, as in throwing each other threw windows, pretending to "bar fight" because they went through a John Wayne fan era, lol. I am just saying some parents go to extremes, like mine. "Big Red" was what my adopted parents punished my older siblings with, a red board with holes. I was punished with a small horse whip, with a knot at the end, all I am saying. Lol there is a difference.
I have to say that I think neither works. Children at that age are always learning and hitting is teaching them what? Also, an adult hitting on a child can lead to bad things, you are towering over them, yelling and then hitting them. That is not showing respect. My daughter is a hand full and I tell her to come to me and tell me why is she not listening or following the rules. However all children are different and you should deal with them that way. One thing I would like to say is that a lot of times the parents are not "parenting" and this leads to a lot of misbehavior. For instance, a child has an attention span of 3-5 minutes, forcing them to sit still or something of this nature is not normal. If you are going to take your child somewhere having a few hand toys really saves you a lot of heart ache. I remember a small teaching session with WIC and the lady said that a lot of women come in the office with a little bitty diaper and back in the day they had huge bags if not multiply ones. She also said that if you give a child a few blocks they will entertain themselves for a little and to the best of there ability. Another thing that I noticed is that people become surprised when they see me with toys and things to comfort my child.
One day I say a lady walking in the heat to go to the post office and she was in a hurry, the baby was in an inappropriate size stroller, it was hot, no water, and nothing. They were walking and there was no side walk and it was a busy street. She hit her child for crying. I was like wow, if that was her she would cry. But yourself in the child’s position. My daughter is a cry baby, I hug tell her that I understand but she can’t just do whatever and I ask her if she wants to sit by me and calm down. She has never said no.
BTW a small rant one thing I hate is when you raise your hand a child jumps. Parents really need to get to know their children and spend quality time, and keep it simple. Children are mini-us’s. ( I know). Have compassion and mercy; and your relationship with your child will last a long time. My mother whipped us and even though she felt like it was a small tap, I felt like she was beating us and abusing us. I think that I may have been abusing to my son. But when I had my daughter a lot of things surfaced with me and I want to be closer to my son. He would never talk to me, he was short, he was a little isolated, and I was so busy with me that he was kind of to himself. He almost failed 5th grade and I knew then I had to step it up. I still do all the things I do but I have a 1000% better relationship with him. He tells me about things like he likes this girl and about his friends. I was hard on him and I was strict. In the end it sucked. We are the adults and we set the example whether we like it or not. I am not judging but this is my opinion.
I hope this made sense.
This is an interesting topic, and what is also interesting is different people from all over the world with different cultures posting thier oppinions. I totally agree with spanking. Here in Belize there is no crime in spanking your child, however a child needs to understand why him/her is being spanked. Now some people i'm sure might think spanking is whipping and acting crazy with your children about things that they are just kids about. That in my oppinion is wrong. No child dies from spanking they die from abuse. Time out don't work for my children and I have three. I have three and I am a single parent, so raising them is no easy task. I always have to be on them for any and everything, from getting along with each other to acting right in public and at home. I spank, I don't play, I have to show my children that I am the boss of them. For those of you who thinks your child will grow up being afraid of you. NOPE. They will know that you control their lives and as parents you should. A child knows trust me he/she knows exactly what they can get away with. I have seen so many children on TV reality shows cursing thier parents and shouting at them as if they are dogs, that would not work in my home. Shows such as 16 and pregnant and my sweet 16, so much more to mention. Start raising your child as if they are the boss of you and not the other way around will result in that. Just remember to balance the love with the discipline. Your child can never grow up hating you for that.
I think both are acceptable methods if used solely for communication, not punishment. Punishment is only fair when child is old enough to cognitively know behavior is wrong, but engages regardless. Punishment is for defiance to previously understood rules of behavior, not the unlearned negative behavior of a toddler running with scissors.
If child is too young to understand verbally, pain avoidance is a natural deterrent. Toddler runs with scissors, immediately reward with negative stimuli such as spanking. They will associate and avoid repeat behaviors. Sit them alone for 2 minutes explaining dangers, they will disassociate with the scissor/running event. Note that one should never spank to cause harm or while angry, but only to gain child’s attention and elicit negative stimuli. Spanking is not the punishment, spanking is the communication media. Again, punishment is for defiance to understood rules, not the unlearned negative behavior of a toddler.
Works only when the child can relate verbally. Then they can associate the explained scissor/running behavior with forced 2 minute alone time. As verbal communication is available, time-out is used as the form of punishment. Again, punishment for defiance to previously understood rules. So if you've NEVER told your child to not run with scissors, and they do, your immediate reaction is verbally correcting the behavior. Should the child understand and continue/repeat unwanted behavior, reinforce your directive through punishment. (time out, grounding, unwanted chores, etc) At this stage, there is no logical or justified reason to spank.
And keep in mind, positive reinforcement is a behavioral modification tool with much greater power than punishment. "Thank you for listening to mommy.", and "You did such a good job at XYZ." are easy investments with substantial long term rewards.
I have to say that I don't think either works and it a child is running with scissors- 9 out of 10 the parent is not doing their job. Children run and they like shiny new things teach them what scissors are for. My daughter has used scissors and knives (to help me cut vegetables) and I explain them to her and show her the correct way. I haven't had any problems and I have two children. Teaching is a constant thing. When someone older hits someone young, what is that teaching them? I have since this past generation that did what there parents become the most (it is so negative that I can't say it) but they have failed to the point that our country is suffering for it. If I had a babysitter tell me that she believe any of these methods I would not want them.. I am not prefect and I have popped a kid or two but normally when I have I felt bad and I try to explain when that should have been the first thing that I did. Time out is when you place a person in isolation and that is a nicer form of solitary, I don't care for it either and what I have learned in the Early Childhood Courses is that you talk to them and tell them that their behavior is displaying this and this and that they should or could other things. I was on LinkedIn and they have a wonderful that was discussing this and a lot of other topics.
- I explain them to her and show her the correct way
- but normally when I have I felt bad and I try to explain
- you talk to them and tell them that their behavior is displaying this and this and that they should or could other things
All the above suggestions are forms of verbal communication. I have already stated that we need to talk to children about their behaviors, so to this point we agree. However you failed to elaborate on where we seem not to agree, spanking and time out. To simply state these methods don't work is easy. Could you please explain the alternate methods you would use in the following scenarios?
a) How would you explain to a small child, still lacking in verbal skills, that a given behavior is wrong? You can't EXPLAIN by talking, they wont understand you. So how is the message passed on?
b) A child of speaking age has repeated a negative behavior. A behavior they know is wrong as you've already spoken to them about it. How would you address this problem?
I would need more information but is this in an educational environment or at home. The dynamics of a household and family is hard to dissect. From birth patterns in a family are established and things are developed from there. I do not yell much and when I raise my voice it gets my daughters attention she knows that I am serious and she will run to me and stop whatever she is doing. My son I would spank back in the day however it never worked. I asked a friend what she does and I talk to him and talk and depending on the seriousness I will raise my voice. Does talking always work-NO. But it works a lot better when I talk to him, he says he will try. So being a business person I will say that my rate of return for not "spanking" verse that of discussing the issue with him has paid off tremendously. My daughter is a busy body and although spanking may give me some relief and talking takes more of my energy, she eventually gets it. What made me want to study this more is because I homeschool them and I don't want to make the experience horrible, so in order to teach them I wanted to understand ECE a little better. From this program that I am in at Ashworth, I have learned a lot of things. Also when you are a part of the military and you are having a baby they have classes and things and they talk and discuss stuff. From this I have surmised better ways in communicating with my children and I always learning. What is easier and more effective is not always the right way to go about things. They are humans and they have feelings. To give you a more direct answer. I will say that
a) Let's say my daughter was playing with a vase and it was of value. I would say that as a parent I should have relocated the item. Having an expensive vase and small children around things happen. That is not a smart move. If I couldn't relocate it I would place the small person in a restraining device (play pen, etc.). If it is an electric plug, I taught my daughter what it was for and she knows that things plug in to it and that is dangerous. She also had a lot of other things to do and was not left alone a lot by herself. Just because a child can't talk or it is limited-BTW developmentally they talk before they walk- they can still be taught.
b) Another example would be my son is picking on someone outside, I would stop him and talk to him. If he continues, he wouldn't be allowed back out for a while. Normally they will beg to go back and I would explain again why and what appropriate behavior is. However, this wouldn't happened because my children were not raise that way and are not aggressors. But if I was dealing with someone else child that is what I would do. Another thing that works is rewards, if you behave (and explain what behaving is) then I will make cookies or something else small but rewarding. My son hates to clean up behind his self. I could go home and spank (begin Afircan-American I would say a few choice words and go off) but instead, I have rewarded him. I show that appriciate him, I tell him thank you it looks really nice in here. If he doesn't clean his room he can't do whatever it is he maybe looking forward too. I have to say that for about 6 months now, I haven't had many problems and when I say that something was out I placed I explained it to him. He likes to joke around so I will jokingly same something's and he will apologize and fix it.
I used to get extremely upset at my son and punish him however when I made the mistake what happens then. Just because I am grown I can make mistakes but they can not. I can see you possibly have to grab a child from falling or something of the nature, but I can't see myself or anyone, spanking. What do you do, how do you use it? Popping a hand is not the end of the world and that is not what I am implying however, standing of a child yelling at them and then hitting them to get them to understand doesn't look right at all. This is my opinion, personally what someone else does doesn't concern me. I remember being so called spanked and I believe that if I was talking in a way the same result would have happened. What if the child doesn't cry? Or the spanking leaves a mark? As far as time out I don't like it because it is about isolation and I don't do it either. I tell my daughter to tell me what is wrong and what happened and we talk about ways that it could have been done better. I notice that the next time around it is done in a better way but then something else could occur. She then begins to critically think about something's and formulate her own opinion about things. I had to stop in between writing this so I hope it makes sense. Thanks for the question.
Situation I visualized was home environment, not that it should matter.
“Just because a child can't talk or it is limited- they can still be taught.”
How do you teach if not verbally?
“spanking. What do you do, how do you use it?”
Before my daughters could verbally understand, some physical stimuli was used such as a pop in the diaper or slap on hand. This usually followed by a stern “No.” and maybe an explanation if we thought they could cognitively grasp anything being told. As language began to develop, leaned heavy toward verbal correction leaving physical as last resort for extreme behaviors. Once it was clear they could understand verbally, physical was no longer needed and not used again. Take that back, physically bullying type behavior was in the end corrected with direct example of physical bullying. (pushing, overpowering, in the face) However, the directive was not to punish with physical stimuli, it was to create an understanding of what those actions felt like on receiving end and why it was wrong.
“time out I don't like it because it is about isolation”
Time out is not punishment via isolation, it is another method of non physical behavior modification when language fails. Consider it a break from the negative behavior, something like an adult counting to 10 to avoid responding with an angry outburst. It’s a calm alternative method of communicating to your child that they need to listen to you. Start with stating your expectation… “Pick up your toys please, it’s time for dinner.” Allow reasonable time for request to be filled. If ignored, child calmly moved to time out and told in short why they are there. “You are in time out because you didn’t listen when asked to pick up your toys.” This enforces what they were supposed to do v/s what they did, a learn opportunity. Time out duration should be one minute per year of age, so a 3 year old gets 3 minutes. (very short) Personally, I just waited for about 1 minute of quiet. Time elapsed, return to child and repeat reason for time-out and the correct action expected. “You are here because you didn’t listen to me. You need to listen when mommy asks you to do something.” Show affection then release from time-out. One thing you must do not lose your cool during, and let the matter drop when over. Do not revisit the not listening thing, do not show anger/frustration, it’s simply over. Time out is a corrective exercise along the lines of verbal communication for little ones, and is used in short durations but can be revisited countless times. Throws ball, told not to, throws again, time out. Throws ball again, time out. Throws ball again, you get the idea. Reset next day to asking first, then a time out. It’s hard in the beginning, but it’s an investment in your future as eventually child will learn to do what they are told, when they are told. Punishment like taking away things at such a young age doesn’t work well. Attention spans like popcorn popping. But taking them away from the thing of immediate interest works wonders when trying to get their immediate attention.
I have to say that I don't think a slap on the hand is spanking and I am starting to feel like this is turning in too what we call in the military "a pissing contest". If this is what you feel works fine. I don't personally believe in it and I have stated my opinion in several ways. Child are humans and we all make mistakes. To answer your question. There is no such things as someone not being able to understand verablly unless they are deaf. A child that is capable of picking up toys is capable of understanding you and the example you set. My daughter started daycare at 6 weeks old and when they would change the babies diaper they would wash their hands and the babies hands as well. My daughter is a religious hand washer. They started playing with spoons and placing things in there place if they could claw to it they would demonstrate putting up toys and instruct the child where to do it. Again, parenting. The babies brain is growing so fast that this is easily capable for a child to pick up on things. If you are in the ECE courses this was covered int he first lesson of the text. A lot of times parents feel like children should be able to do things when they are not developmentally ready or have not been taught. Yes it is a lot of work and the daycare my daughter attends is a Child Development Center. Over the years, I have learned and as you learn different things you can modify your behavior. I don't believe that spanking works and I don't belief that time out works. And I do believe that it would depend on the environment and setting and what people beleive certain things to be. Thank you for your time, it has been an interesting converstaion and I have enjoyed this topic.
Spanking or a time out, now that's a hard question. Growing up, I got spankings when I was little. When I was a teenager I would be grounded. I remember once when my cousins came to visit and they wanted to go rollerskating. Everyone got to go except for me, because I was grounded. They asked why and my mom decided to go into detail as to why I was grounded. Omg, I was so embarrased I could of died right their on the spot. My cousins looked at me and said "did you really", they looked like your disgusting. I looked at my mom and rolled eyes, (totally disresptful) I mean really rolled my eyes and said "oh my god, her old age is catching up to her, she's totally wrong. I don't even think she remembers why I'm grounded. Now my cousins looked at her like you don't remember. To say the least, they went, I stayed home, and mom and I had a talk. A long talk. That night my grounding was over. My mom actually said sorry to me for embarrasing me. I apologized for rolling my eyes. So, grounding or spanking? It depends on the kids and their age. If it is spanking, a swat across the but is suffiicient. If the spanking doesn't work, then another form of punishment may be needed.
I say it depends on how far they go with the spanking. A little spanking on the butt never hurt us growing up. I think that if more kids were spanked, they're wouldn't be so many teens out of hand these days. I'm not talking abuse, just a little spanking...
A little spanking never hurts ... I'm still here responding to this post ... Now we not talking about taking it overboard ... Thats a whole nother subject .. But a little disciplinary spank is fine ... But not all actions require a spanking, so that plays a factor as well ...
It's better to try to be rational and use other methods of parenting before you resort to spanking. But if you don't go overboard and it is your child it's sometimes all that works. That or a good spat on the hand. I was a very hard child to deal with and my parents rarely used spanking but when they did I knew it and I behaved. now I'm not a parent so you may think I don't count but that's your decision to make. Random fact: (in Texas) when my friend went to report abuse to the school officer he told her that as long as they didn't leave bruises a parent could use whatever punishment they like with children.
Growing up, my siblings and I were also spanked, but rarely. There were more time-outs, but I don't remember much of them since I was really young at the time. My mom is a child psychologist and was big on the time-out thing and believes it gives the child time to think about what he did. I do clearly remember the way we were usually punished was by having things we liked taken away from us like TV, computer, toys, etc.
I believe spanking should be a last resort of punishment when it comes to a child. When spanking a child, the pain will last for a while and then when it goes, they will usually forget. They need a punishment that will stay rooted in their mind so they will not repeat the action twice. Most importantly, one needs to respect the child and the child is not being respected when being spanked. I deal with kids every day and I believe different tactics work with different kids, but I haven't found spanking to be necessary when I deal with children.
O.O Does the display pic for this discussion disturb anyone else or is it just me?
Anyway, I am definitely NOT a fan of spanking. Does it have its uses in extreme situations? It probably does. I am not a parent so I can't say with 1000% certainty I would never use it but it DISGUISTS me. It has too much potential to go over the line. A parent might think its barely a tap but it might actually hurt the child and who wants to see their kid crying because you swatted their booty? Generally, I think if you have to use this CONSTANTLY then you really need a parenting class or have one hyper kid.
Time outs may be effective for small children, but once they reach a certain age spanking is appropriate. I'm from Mississippi so I grew up being spanked. After being spanked for something I learned to not do whatever I was being repremanded for. It is not abuse if you just spank a child. In Mississippi the law is basically you can do what you have to in order to discipline the child as long as you do not unrealistically beat them or kill them. I have a one year old and I have never had to really punish her. I have had to pop her hand once, but when I do it I never use force.
I lived in a home where you had to respect your parents and you didn't talk back. You couldn't interrupt two adults speaking. You had to say may I be excused from the the dinner table and pick up your mess. My parents showed me alot of love and attention and I never feared them I feared the spanking. But you know what my parents used a combination of punishments. Like taking things away from me, not allowing me to go outside and play, no t.v., and of course spanking. It all depended on the severity of the situation. I do believe you have to spank your children as long as it is done the right way. I'm not talking about beating the hell out of your kids. You have to explain to the child what they did wrong and why they are getting punished and that you love them very much. You have to express that it doesn't make you happy to have to spank them but that they have to understand that they can't do whatever they want. That there is consequences for their actions. I have three boys a 6, 4, and a 3 year old and let me tell you they get their share of spankings but they also know that I love them and they don't fear me at all. I show the alot of love. And their punishments are not always a spanking. This is my opinion.
I can see some people having to use it but it leaves a bitter taste in my mouth. Lol, I would have gone crazy in a house like that. I generally did those things anyway. My guidence counselor told me at 14 that I acted more like his coworker then a student and could have passed for 24. So I was like WONDERFUL...now if you could hand me my drivers license and high school diploma, I will be on my merry way...
my parents beat the hell out of my bottom cuz i was a naughty kid and im glad they did so cuz i wouldnt be the person i am today... but i dont believe beating a child, spanking is ok so is time out. parents need to not let there children walk all over them. i see that way tooo much but good thing im here cuz im the my friends kids nanny to teach them how to be polite, and have better behavior..... go team mom! for the ones who stand up and make a difference!
In special education we use a technique called ABA which means applied behavior analysis .... this is a technique that focuses on good behavior while ignoring bad behavior (not completely but 80% of the time). In ABA we do not punish, we praise.
When you focus on the good behavior of a child, then you get more good behavior in return. However, if you focus on bad behavior you will get more bad behavior in return. A child will do what the major focus is- So if it is praise he will strive to get more praise. If you are focusing on time out, or shouting... he will focus on that because that is where he is getting his attention.
We have found a lot of inprovement in childrens' behavior, attitute and even study skiils using the ABA techiques. Even with children with severe behavior problems. Our most difficult task is teaching the parents to use the techniques at home, and not to scream or hit their children.
Yes, this is a wonderful method and it works. Once the parents get the hang of it, we usually see major changes in the child's behavior at home and school. This is the main method we use in the center I run in the Middle East.
If you google applied behavior analysis you will find loads of information. :-)
This ABA method might be the reason why the kids in "special ed" remain so "special". It's because politically correct people like you refuse to set them strait and lay down the law.
I agree with you that rewarding children should be done when it is appropriate to encourage good behavior in the future. Likewise, children should be reprimanded for bad behavior.
If you can't think of other suitable punishments maybe there is a little bit of "special" in all of us. I have a mentally handicapped sister. She is 20 physically but mentally she might as well be 10. She has an iq of about 50-55. The average IQ is 85-115 to give you an idea of where she ranks. Personally, I find anyone that would spank a handicapped child, who would probably NOT understand why you are spanking them, DISGUISTING. So think before you throw around the word special so loosely. I don't find it horrible that people would try to praise the kid instead of swatting their booty. If spanking is the only effective choice you have then use it, but don't abuse it.
I agree that abusing a mentally handicapped person is wrong. But the original poster (asianstylzz) was speaking of children generally. And the poster of the comment to which I replied (Kawthar Al-Balushi) was suggesting that such techniques should be used by all parents, not just those of handicapped people. Special education programs often include kids who simply have behavioral problems, that aren't mentally challenged by any stretch of the imagination. By these kids, I mean ones that are out of control, have attention disorders, or are otherwise distractions in the normal classroom setting that would likely benefit from discipline.
There are times to reward and times to punish. Unfortunately, there aren't enough parents willing to take control of their children and be responsible. Irresponsible parents create irresponsible kids. Remember the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
There are other ways to correct negative behavior. The overall point I was making was that ignoring it isn't always the best solution. Personally, I believe that spanking is a personal choice for each parent to make depending upon their own views or the particular circumstances.
Then we largely agree. The ABA method proposed aims to ignore it.
On the issue of spanking, it's what the larger debate here is about.
Personally, how I choose to respond to my child depends on whether the behavior is postive or negative and to what degree. There are many different effective techniques.
Meh I wouldn't have the heart to do it. It's too easily overdone. I don't see it as actually fixing anything but it probably doesnt' do any permanent damage on the whole. It just leaves a sour taste in my mouth and if I see an adult smacking some kid around I'll probably go to jail for smacking the adult around.
Yes, the ABA technique works for all children. It was originally used for behavior management of autistic children. However, it was discovered that this method works well for all children.
It will help in managing behavior. Children focus on attention. If its negative or positive... its better to focus on the positive so that you get positive results. When you praise children... they love that attention so they want more. Even when you scold them... they want that attention because maybe it is the only attention the get from their parents. So something is better than nothing in the eyes of a child.
I have used the ABA techniques for years in both mainstream and special education, and it is one technique i find that works well.
It seems like a teacher would want to address distractions in the classroom immediatly, for the benefit of all children. One thing I do agree with you on, however, is that it is important for children to get positive reinforcements in their life. And, like you mention, the sad fact is that many parents do not give their children enough time and attention at home.
Absolutely agree with you wupchurch. Get some basics and go with it and stop trying to be politically correct. I was spanked plenty, me and all my siblings. The older ones corrected the younger ones. We were taught to respect parents, older brothers/sisters and adults and to be responsible, and I am so grateful today. I do not dread my folks and they respect me. I do not have children of my own yet, but I just don't seem to be able to keep them away from me. I discipline them and require good behaviour- spank them if need be, and without apologies to anybody, and they just keep coming back because they see aguy who loves them and can be fun and who comes down to their level. Just try not to be angry but aim to correct. Children are more intelligent than we mostly give them credit for, so they will know both respond to spanking or just being explained to, depending on the child's temperament and they will learn to take you for granted or to respect you if you lay down the law.
Again tapping a child lightly might not mean anything to him/her. I think you should not be afraid or ashamed to cause pain- That is the whole point and they will remember, and understand you, when they begin to step out of line and look in your direction and you give them a meaningful look.
Please read this in the vein in which it is written. ABA sounds very much like what I learned in animal behavior and teaching: establishing and maintaining a leadership role (not dominance), positive reinforcement of desired behaviors and ignoring or redirecting unwanted behaviors, teaching (not training) what is wanted and then praising and rewarding for successful behavior, understanding the developmental stage of the child/animal, and providing plenty of enrichment so busy minds and feet/paws can channel all that excess energy in an acceptable way. Kindness is not a dirty word. Setting healthy and loving boundaries that encourages a child or animal to behave in a way which will allow them to function well in society is not a recipe for disrespect down the road.
i believe to use the lessor punishment first then spanking. sometimes a time out is not enough to make a child learn. a Child who touches something hot useally will not touch it again becasue they have learned there lesson, when a child gets a spanking they useally won't do it again. and thats just from my own experiance.
I have seen a lot of teenagers with a lack of respect, discipline, and motivation. That is partially due to lightening punishments/corrections. I don't beat my children, but a swat that just makes the noise and doesn't really hurt them physically straitens them out pretty quick. Now my oldest is to the point that I don't feel comfortable doing it. She's 13, hence I have to use other methods of limiting social or entertainment time. I received corporal punishment (non-abusive), and I have managed to make it apply to my own children with more understanding of why they are getting the correctional action. Grounding doesn't work period, it just let's them know they can have after a certain time period, and they will repeat the same action multiple times consciencely.
By the time the kid is 13...it would get too weird for most people to spank them.
But if you have other methods of punishment, why wouldn't you use them on the younger children? I mean obviously a two year old isn't going to understand a long explaination. But a time out or something, might work?
The 2 youngest are 4 and 5 at this point, but as I said. It doesn't really happen that often, just more or less for more serious mis-behavioral activites. Tell them they won't get any coffee and they do stop sometimes. It's pretty funny actually. Trying to be like daddy. lol!
I'm in the field of education and have studied a great amount of child development and psychology. There is no doubt about it, spanking has become frowned on as a form of discipline for children. The reading and studying that I have done as an educator tell my brain that there are better ways to raise children and I tend to agree. Time outs can work for some children. Loss of privileges is a very effective way to deal with older kids. Grounding will work for some. Just scolding and talking to my 15 year old daughter generally worked and I didn't have to move beyond that.
However, as a teacher, parent, and step parent, I've learned in the real world that all those techniques don't work every time with every child. There are other issues as well. Sometimes a child will do something so serious that as parents we have to send an immediate message that certain behavior is unacceptable and that we have "zero tolerance" for it. For that reason, I think parents do need to keep spanking available as an option for the very worst behavior you may see from children.
I wouldn't tolerate "bullying behavior" from children and that would almost certainly result in a spanking. My husband and I saw a need to straighten out his son immediately when he got involved with another boy in a situation where they chose to destroy some property that belonged to someone else, so along with other discipline he got a spanking. Some may argue that there are other ways to deal with these sorts of things and they may be right. I find as a parent that I am not only guided, but by head, but my heart in these situations.
Spanking can definitely be misused as a form of discipline. I think its best if both parents are involved when its done, so that they can serve as kind of a "check" on one another to make sure it doesn't go too far. IMO, no parent should ever spank with anything, but their own hand. Spankings should always take place over a clothed bottom (at least underpants). Spankings hopefully can be replaced by other consequences by the time a child is 10.
Children are individuals. Some methods of discipline work on some and some on others.
Wendy Johson that was a very well written and thought out arguement.
I don't have any children. I still don't think I would have the heart to do it.
I think it could too easily go passed a little pat on the booty to something that would bruise or worse.
If people wanna or think they need to spank their kid, I can't stop them.
My parents had two children. Me and my sister who is mentally handicapped and suffers from ADHD. If she didn't take her medication when she was younger, she became a TORNADO. That is a wild child. But they never had to resort to it. I don't think she would have understood what they were doing even if they did, other then going OWE and probably crying.
If they had done it to me...well I was a special case. I guess you could call me passive aggress. I would never physically hurt someone. I'd remember the spanking and I would have been even more naughty. I probably would have eaten their favorite snacks or something LOL.
Of course, I didn't do many things to deserve spankings. I mostly just watched TV. I was an honor roll student. I never really had any behavioral problems according to the teachers. I'm sure at some point, like most kids I got mouthy here or there. But they never spanked me.
If you can raise your kids without spanking then that's good. If you absolutely feel the need well, no one can really stop you except the police if they go too far with I don't know the old fashioned leather belt or something.
I would have to say time out. We teach out children that it is not ok to hit eachother...when Timmy hits Sally he gets into trouble, so we ask him why he hit her and he states that she took the toy he was playing with, now to him she did something wrong because he was taught that taking toys from other kids is bad behavior. So of course we tell Timmy that she should not have taken the toy but its not ok to hit her....Children are great mimics, he gets spanked when he does something bad. So in my opinion we are sending mixed signals we are saying its ok for us to hit but not him.
It does depend on the kid...as in I was a sensitive child and I really don't think it helped AT ALL.
My kid is more 'tough' but ironically, I didn't spank him very much...I did a few times when he was really young, still in a diaper...but they were so ineffective, I ended up finding other ways...of course, that opens the door to psychological abuse.
Fear of punishment is not 'the point' in my mind. I want my kid to understand that screaming in a grocery store is a bad thing BECAUSE it's embarrasing to others with you and it doesn't reflect well on you. And/Or doesn't get you what you want...I didn't want him not to do something in one store b/c he was scared of the punishment but feel perfectly justified in doing it in another store.
Or whatever the case may be...that's just an example.
I found that when he was younger, giving him something or telling him I would take him to x place if he behaved would work. (always keeping in mind it was something I could follow through with)
Now that he's older, he knows I'll go on forever (according to him) about WHY you shouldn't do whatever and that drives him crazy ;-) so he generally avoids doing the wrongthing...sometimes to avoid a lecture bu there are times that he actually gets WHY something is seen as 'bad'.
I was out with a friend the other day and these worn out looking parents came in (we were at a restaurant) and their kid could NOT keep still in the booth directly behind my friend. She said if she had a kid, he/she wouldn't act that way.
Luckily I had already had a drink so I could just be amused by what she said. Normally, that kind of thing coming from a person w/o kids drives me crazy! It really is a situation where a parent thinks you have no right to judge anyone elses parenting if you don't have one yourself.
At least you've taken some psychology classes. I think all women who have a child should be required to take at least one child development class.
That friend & I do not see eye to eye about child rearing. However, I doubt she'll ever be in the position I was in (single mother with medical problems) and she knows it so she generally keeps her mouth shut.
edit: I like the writing it out idea...making them actually think about what they did and think of other behaviors they could have tried-plus, it would give the parent time to cool down if they're worked up.